4/2/01

LC010402

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> A NEW LANDMARK IS GOING UP IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES THAT MAY TAKE SOME GETTING USED TO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT'S AN ODDBALL OF ARCHITECTURE THAT SURVIVED ALL KINDS OF PITFALLS. NOW SOME SAY THE NEW DISNEY HALL IS JUST WHAT IT MAY TAKE TO HELP RESCUE DOWNTOWN L.A.

STEVE CHAPIN>> I THINK IT'S TERRIFIC. I THINK IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT LOS ANGELES IS FINALLY GETTING SOME WORLD-CLASS ARCHITECTURE. WE NEED IT.

VAL>> SOME THIEVES DON'T WANT YOUR MONEY. THEY WANT YOUR IDENTITY AND YOUR GOOD CREDIT RATING. SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS, IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE GROWING PROBLEM OF IDENTITY THEFT.

JESS>> AND A USC JOURNALISM STUDENT BRINGS US A STORY OF INTOLERANCE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO BELONG TO SO-CALLED STRAIGHT FRATERNITIES AND SORORITIES.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW. OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT, A NEW WORLD-CLASS LANDMARK FOR DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. IT IS THE DISNEY CONCERT HALL, SOON TO BE THE HOME OF THE LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT IT WILL BE A GREAT PLACE FOR GREAT MUSIC, BUT DISNEY HALL MAY BECOME BETTER KNOWN FOR ITS UNUSUAL GEOMETRY AND ITS STAINLESS STEEL EXTERIOR. LOVE IT OR HATE IT, THE BUILDING DEFINITELY WILL NOT BE BORING.

VAL>> DISNEY HALL IS THE LEGACY OF WALT DISNEY'S WIDOW, LILLIAN, BUT IT TOOK THE EFFORTS OF MANY OTHERS TO RESCUE THE PROJECT FROM FINANCIAL DISASTER. IN FACT, MOST OF LILLIAN DISNEY'S MONEY WAS SPENT EARLY ON AND SHE NEVER LIVED TO SEE THE FINAL RESULT. PHILIP BRUCE HAS OUR REPORT.

PHILIP>> IT SITS ON A HILLTOP IN THE FOREGROUND OF L.A.'S SKYLINE, A CURVY COMPANION TO THE STRAIGHT AND TALL GIANTS OF DOWNTOWN. BUT THE ODD SHAPE IS NO SURPRISE WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE ARCHITECT WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THIS. FRANK GEHRY NEVER MET A CURVE HE DIDN'T LIKE AND HE'S DRAWN PLENTY OF THEM INTO THE NEW DISNEY CONCERT HALL.

FRANK GEHRY>> YOU KNOW, IN BILBAO, WHEN I SAW THIS STRUCTURAL STEEL LIKE THIS, I SAID, OH MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE TO THESE POOR PEOPLE? SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF INSECURITY THAT ONE GETS.

PHILIP>> WHEN GEHRY SPEAKS OF BILBAO, IT'S TO RECOLLECT ONE OF HIS MASTERPIECES, THE GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM IN BILBAO, SPAIN, ANOTHER SHAPELY GIANT THAT SEALED HIS STATUS AS AN INTERNATIONAL SUPERSTAR. ANY INSECURITIES GEHRY MAY HAVE HAD ABOUT THAT BUILDING QUICKLY FADED ONCE THE ACCOLADES STARTED POURING IN AND THE TOURISTS STARTED FLOCKING TO BILBAO TO SEE IT.

TODAY IN LOS ANGELES, AS THE STEEL GOES UP ON GEHRY'S LATEST CREATION, THERE'S A DRUMBEAT THAT DISNEY HALL WILL JOIN THE SAME LOFTY RANKS AS THE GUGGENHEIM. WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A DOOR OR WINDOW IN PLACE, THE BUILDING ALREADY IS BEING TOUTED AS A LANDMARK.

ANDREA VAN DE KAMP>> OH, I THINK THAT THIS WILL BE THE EQUIVALENT IN LOS ANGELES OF WHAT THE SIDNEY OPERA HOUSE IS TO SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA. SO WE REALLY BELIEVE THIS WILL BE THE SYMBOL OF LOS ANGELES AND REPRESENTATIVE OF THE EXCITING PLACE WE'LL HAVE IN THIS CENTURY.

PHILIP>> REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ALL THE GRAND PREDICTIONS COME TRUE, THERE IS ONE PART OF THE BUILDING'S FUTURE THAT'S CERTAIN. IN THE FALL OF 2003, DISNEY HALL WILL BECOME HOME TO THE L.A. PHILHARMONIC AND, FOR CONDUCTOR ESA-PEKKA SALONEN, THIS DAY OFFERED A PERFECT CHANCE TO TRY OUT WHAT WILL BE HIS NEW COMMAND POSITION ON THE CONCERT HALL FLOOR.

ESA-PEKKA SALONEN>> I LIKE THIS SPOT. (LAUGHTER) GOOD CHOICE.

PHILIP>> SO MUCH FOR THE ACOUSTICS, BUT SALONEN KNOWS WHAT'S COMING ONCE ALL THE STEEL IS UP AND THE BUILDING IS DONE. HE'S MEMORIZED EVERY ASPECT OF THE ARTIST DRAWING OF THE NEW DISNEY HALL, EVERY DETAIL OF HOW HE AND THE ORCHESTRA WILL FIT IN TO THE NEW DESIGN.

ESA-PEKKA SALONEN>> THERE ARE MAINLY TWO THINGS FROM THE AUDIENCE POINT OF VIEW THAT WILL BE STRIKING IN THE NEW HALL. THE SOUND, OF COURSE, BUT ALSO THE INTIMACY BECAUSE THE ORCHESTRA IS ALMOST RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HALL AND THE CONDUCTOR'S BOX WILL BE ALMOST AT THE VERY CENTER POINT OF THE LENGTH OF THE HALL. THIS MEANS THAT THE ORCHESTRA IS BEING SURROUNDED BY THE AUDIENCE FROM EVERY ANGLE BASICALLY AND WHAT HAPPENS THEN, OF COURSE, IS WE HAVE THIS SENSE OF COMMUNICATING AND WE HAVE THE SENSE OF DIALOGUE.

PHILIP>> BY ALL ACCOUNTS, ESA-PEKKA AND COMPANY ARE DOING A FINE JOB IN SPITE OF THE ACOUSTICAL CHALLENGES OF THEIR PRESENT HOME, THE DOROTHY CHANDLER PAVILION, A PLACE THAT SOME SAY NEVER REALLY LIVED UP TO ITS PROMISE AS A GREAT MUSIC HALL.

DEBORAH BORDA>> THE DOROTHY CHANDLER PAVILION WAS BUILT AS A MULTI-PURPOSE HALL TO BE HOME FOR THE PHILHARMONIC, A BALLET COMPANY, AN OPERA COMPANY, SO IT WASN'T DESIGNED SIMPLY FOR MUSIC-MAKING. AS A RESULT, ALTHOUGH IT'S A VENERABLE HALL AND IT HAS A FINE HISTORY, I ALWAYS CONTEND THAT, IF YOU'VE ONLY HEARD THE LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC IN THE DOROTHY CHANDLER PAVILION, YOU'VE NEVER HEARD IT.

PHILIP>> IN THE MIDST OF ALL THE ENTHUSIASM, IT'S EASY TO FORGET THAT DISNEY HALL ALMOST DIDN'T HAPPEN. IT WAS ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED NEARLY 15 YEARS AGO AND WAS PUT ON THE DRAWING BOARD AFTER WALT DISNEY'S WIDOW, LILLIAN, GAVE THE SEED MONEY TO BUILD IT. BUT COUNTLESS BATTLES, BOTH POLITICAL AND FINANCIAL, LOOMED AS A DARK CLOUD OVER THE PROJECT FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. NOBODY COULD SEEM TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WANTED, RIGHT DOWN TO THE ACOUSTICS, AND THE METER WAS RUNNING. THE INITIAL ESTIMATE OF $50 MILLION DOLLARS SKYROCKETED TO OVER $200 MILLION WITH LITTLE TO SHOW FOR IT. AS FRANK GEHRY TOLD THESE MUSIC PATRONS LAST WEEK, THERE WERE MANY TIMES HE WAS READY TO CALL IT QUITS AND HE WOULD HAVE IF NOT FOR THE CALMING PRESENCE OF WALT DISNEY'S DAUGHTER.

FRANK GEHRY>> DIANE DISNEY MILLER HAS BEEN A GREAT SUPPORT FOR ME THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS AND I THINK, BECAUSE SHE GREW UP WITH A CREATIVE GENIUS FATHER, SHE UNDERSTOOD THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY SOMEHOW.

DIANE DISNEY MILLER>> WELL, I CAN REMEMBER WATCHING THE MATTERHORN GO UP AT DISNEYLAND, WHICH LOOKED A LITTLE BIT LIKE THIS.

PHILIP>> HER MOTHER NEVER LIVED TO SEE THIS DAY, BUT DIANE DISNEY MILLER SAYS MOM MOST DEFINITELY WOULD APPROVE OF HOW THE CONCERT HALL BEARING THE FAMILY NAME IS TAKING SHAPE AND SO WOULD HER DAD.

PHILIP>> YOU MUST HAVE HAD MOMENTS WHEN YOU THOUGHT THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN, THAT IT WAS JUST NOT GOING TO COME TO PASS?

DIANE DISNEY MILLER>> OH, THERE WERE MOMENTS LIKE THAT AND IT WAS FRUSTRATING BECAUSE ALL MY MOTHER'S MONEY, YOU KNOW, HAD BEEN SPENT JUST ABOUT AND I JUST WENT THIS IS NOT RIGHT.

PHILIP>> THOSE DAYS OF DOUBT ARE NOW HISTORY, BUT THERE ARE STILL LINGERING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER DISNEY HALL CAN BE A LINCHPIN FOR A NEW DOWNTOWN L.A. AS SOME ARE HOPING IT WILL. IT'S DEFINITELY THE CROWN JEWEL OF WHAT SOME ARE CALLING THE NEW CULTURAL CORRIDOR ALONG GRAND AVENUE, A COLLECTION OF BUILDINGS THAT WILL INCLUDE A RENOVATED MUSIC CENTER ALL WITHIN VIEW OF THE NEW CATHEDRAL STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION. IN ANY EVENT, DISNEY HALL HAS ALREADY BECOME THE CENTER OF ATTENTION FOR ALL THOSE WHO LIVE OR WORK IN THIS SECTION OF DOWNTOWN AND EVERYBODY WHO SEES THE SWEEPING LINES, THE ONES GEHRY SAYS WERE INSPIRED BY THE SAILS OF HIS BOAT, HAS AN OPINION.

STEVE CHAPIN>> I THINK IT'S TERRIFIC. I THINK IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT LOS ANGELES IS FINALLY GETTING SOME WORLD-CLASS ARCHITECTURE. WE NEED IT.

PHILIP>> BUT ART IS ALWAYS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER AND NOT EVERYBODY VIEWS THIS AS GEHRY'S BEST EFFORT.

SIU LOKE>> WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE BILBAO. I'M NOT SO CONVINCED IF L.A. SHOULD SORT OF COPY SOMETHING WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN BUILT. IN THIS WHOLE SITUATION, L.A. MIGHT STAND TO LOSE BECAUSE THIS IS THE SECOND BUILDING THAT LOOKS SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS BUILT IN BILBAO.

PHILIP>> A KNOCKOFF?

SIU LOKE>> YES, IN OTHER WORDS, YES, A KNOCKOFF.

JESS>> IN FACT, THE RADICAL DESIGN WAS ONE OF THE REAL PROBLEMS IN RAISING THE LAST AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WAS REQUIRED TO GET IT OFF THE GROUND, WASN'T IT?

PHILIP>> I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD TO BE CONVINCED, BUT MONEY WAS ALWAYS THE KEY PROBLEM HERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A GREAT IDEA. A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT BEHIND IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, ELI BROAD AND SEVERAL OTHERS IN TOWN RODE TO THE RESCUE HERE AND SAVED THIS THING. THERE WERE MANY YEARS WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE IT WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

JESS>> AND, IN FACT, LILLIAN DISNEY'S MONEY WASN'T FRITTERED AWAY.

PHILIP>> NO, IT WASN'T.

JESS>> THEY USED IT TO BUILD THE UNDERGROUND PARKING STRUCTURE, DIDN'T THEY?

PHILIP>> THAT'S RIGHT. IT WAS SPENT, BUT THERE WAS REALLY NOTHING AS FAR AS THE STRUCTURE BEYOND THAT.

VAL>> PHILIP, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DEAL WITH THE LARGER QUESTION OF HOW DO YOU BROADEN THE AUDIENCE THAT THE PHILHARMONIC WILL APPEAL TO? THEY HAVE A BEAUTIFUL PLACE, BUT THE AUDIENCE IS STILL FAIRLY WELL OFF, IN THE LEAST.

PHILIP>> WELL, WHAT THEY'RE HOPING TO DO IS CREATE A WHOLE NEW MINDSET THERE BY CREATING A PARK-LIKE ATMOSPHERE, FOR ONE THING, AROUND THIS NEW DISNEY HALL, TO MAKE IT AS INVITING AS POSSIBLE, A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WILL COME ALMOST ANY DAY AND SPEND SOME TIME. AND SECONDLY, BY HAVING ALL KINDS OF EVENTS, NOT JUST THE PHILHARMONIC, BUT A CONTINUING SERIES OF EVENTS. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS, THE DOROTHY CHANDLER IS SO HEAVILY BOOKED THAT IT'S HARD TO HAVE MANY EXTRANEOUS EVENTS THERE. THEY'RE TRYING TO PLAN THE DISNEY HALL WHERE IT WILL ALWAYS HAVE ROOM FOR FREE EVENTS AND FOR SOME REDUCED-PRICE EVENTS, AS WELL AS THE TRADITIONAL PHILHARMONIC --

JESS>> -- AND, IN FACT, THE ORCHESTRA ITSELF HAS HAD AN OUTREACH PROGRAM OF GOING TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND GETTING CHILDREN INTERESTED IN GREAT MUSIC TOO, AND THAT'S BEGINNING TO PAY OFF, ISN'T IT?

PHILIP>> WELL, IT IS, AND, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T HURT TO HAVE A SUPERSTAR CONDUCTOR LIKE ESA-PEKKA WHO REALLY UNDERSTANDS HOW A SYMPHONY CAN APPEAL TO THE MASSES. I MEAN, HE HAS THAT EUROPEAN APPEAL. HE KNOWS HOW IT PLAYS THERE. HE WANTS TO BRING THAT SAME KIND OF SENSIBILITY TO LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> AND HE LIKES THE HALL.

PHILIP>> HE DOES. HE LOVES IT. HE'S BEEN KEENLY INVOLVED, IN FACT, IN THE ACOUSTICS THERE.

VAL>> WOW, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE. WELL, NOW WE HAVE A SUPERSTAR BUILDING AND, HOPEFULLY, YOUNG PEOPLE AND EVERYONE WILL FLOCK TO IT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OUR TOP STORY TOMORROW, IN JUST OVER A WEEK, PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE POLLS ON A VARIETY OF ISSUES AND ONE OF THEM IS A CITY COUNCIL SEAT IN THE CITY OF L.A. WHO WILL REPRESENT ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN AND DIVERSE DISTRICTS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA? THE ELECTION FOR L.A. CITY COUNCIL DISTRICT 13. THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT AT 7:00 P.M.

JESS>> IN TONIGHT'S THINKERS, SHAKERS & NEWSMAKERS, IT IS THE MOST VALUABLE THING YOU OWN, MORE VALUABLE THAN YOUR HOME OR YOUR CAR. IT'S YOUR IDENTITY.

VAL>> IDENTITY THEFT IS A GROWING PROBLEM AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE FACED IT CAN TELL YOU THAT THE EXPERIENCE IS AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. WELL, SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE, KEVIN ROSS, IS HERE TO DISCUSS SOME OF THE NEW LAWS AIMED AT HELPING OUT THE VICTIMS. WELCOME, JUDGE ROSS.

KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

JESS>> JUDGE ROSS, THE COMPUTER AGE HAS COMPOUNDED THE PROBLEM, HAS IT NOT?

KEVIN ROSS>> THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD THINK. YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION JUST MADE A REPORT LAST MONTH TO A PRESIDENTIAL ADVISORY COUNCIL SAYING IDENTITY THEFT REALLY IS NOT TAKEN ON THE INTERNET TO THE EXTENT THAT PEOPLE THINK. IT'S STILL BASED --

JESS>> -- OR FEARED.

KEVIN ROSS>> OR FEARED, EXACTLY. YOU REALLY STILL HAVE ISSUES WHERE PEOPLE LOSE THEIR WALLETS OR THEY LEAVE THEIR PURSE OR SOMEONE GETS ACCESS TO A CREDIT CARD OR SOMETHING THAT'S SENT TO YOUR HOME AND YOU DECIDE, OH, JUST THROW IT AWAY INSTEAD OF MAYBE REALLY SHREDDING IT. A LOT OF THE IDENTITY THEFT STILL IS BASED ON NON-INTERNET TYPES OF CASES.

VAL>> SO WHAT DOES A PERSON NEED TO STEAL YOUR IDENTITY? IS YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER ENOUGH?

KEVIN ROSS>> OH, THEY CAN USE ANYTHING FROM YOUR NAME, YOUR ADDRESS, YOUR MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME, YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE, YOUR ID NUMBER IF YOU'RE AN EMPLOYEE. ANYTHING COULD BE USED.

VAL>> BUT WHAT I'M SAYING, DO THEY NEED TO GET ALL THOSE THINGS OR GETTING JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS IS ENOUGH?

KEVIN ROSS>> NOT NECESSARILY. IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT WHAT IDENTITY THEFT IS, IT'S BASICALLY WHEN SOMEONE USES LARCENY AS A MEANS OF OBTAINING GOODS AND SERVICES THROUGH USE OF YOU. SO IF SOMEONE IS ABLE TO GET A MORE FAVORABLE INTEREST RATE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME, ZAVALA, AND THEN THEY USE YOUR MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME, WELL, THAT WOULD ESTABLISH RIGHT THERE THAT THEY'RE USING YOUR IDENTITY TO GET SOME SORT OF GOOD OR SERVICE OR SOME SORT OF BENEFIT.

JESS>> AND THE PERSON WHO'S A VICTIM OF IDENTITY THEFT, HOW DO THEY GET OUT OF IT?

KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO TOUGH BECAUSE OFTENTIMES PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THAT THEY'RE EVEN VICTIMIZED. I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION -- THERE'S A SUPREME COURT CASE. THE SUPREME COURT JUST RULED THAT AN INDIVIDUAL -- IT TOOK THEM TWO YEARS, OVER TWO YEARS, BEFORE THEY WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT SOME NEVADA PERSON WAS USING THEIR IDENTITY TO GET AN APARTMENT, CREDIT CARD, AND THAT PERSON WAS ACTUALLY MAKING PAYMENTS AND DOING EVERYTHING THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO. WHAT HAPPENS IS, THEY END UP DEFAULTING AND THEY END UP OWING BACK RENT AND ALL THESE THINGS HAPPEN AND THEN THEY GO TO THAT CREDIT REPORT AND THEY USE THE INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD NO IDEA THAT THIS WAS GOING ON FOR YEARS. SO THEN THAT PERSON SAID I SHOULD BE ABLE TO SUE THE CREDIT AGENCY BECAUSE I WASN'T EVEN AWARE OF THIS, BUT TWO YEARS HAD EXPIRED. SO THE FEDERAL LAW --

VAL>> -- I'M SORRY, LIKE A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS?

KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT, SO THERE'S THE FAIR CREDIT ACT THROUGH THE FEDERAL LEGISLATION. YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUE A CREDIT AGENCY, BUT IT ONLY ALLOWS YOU TO DO IT WITHIN A TWO-YEAR PERIOD OF TIME.

VAL>> I'M SORRY, SO I CAN SUE THE CREDIT AGENCY FOR WHAT EXACTLY?

KEVIN ROSS>> FOR ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE USE YOUR INFORMATION TO MAKE YOUR SITUATION ADVERSE BECAUSE THAT AFFECTED THAT PERSON'S CREDIT RATING AND ANY ATTEMPT THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO HAVE TO PAY THEIR CREDITORS. IT WAS JUST A NIGHTMARE FOR THAT PERSON. WHAT HAPPENED WAS, BECAUSE THEY WERE OUTSIDE THE TWO YEARS, THE COURT SAID YOU'RE TIME HAS RUN OUT. SO THE SUPREME COURT IS NOW ACTUALLY HANDLING CASES TO SEE IF INDIVIDUALS CAN HAVE BEYOND THAT TWO YEARS BECAUSE VICTIMS OFTENTIMES JUST HAVE NO IDEA.

JESS>> AND TWO YEARS WOULD NOT BE AN UNLIKELY AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THAT UNRAVELED, WOULD IT?

KEVIN ROSS>> OH NO, NOT AT ALL. AND EVEN WITHIN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, FORTUNATELY, WE HAVE SOME NEW LEGISLATION THAT DEALT WITH IDENTITY THEFT. IT IS WHAT'S CALLED A WOBBLER, SO EITHER IT CAN BE FILED WITH A MAXIMUM CONFINEMENT TIME OF ONE YEAR IN THE COUNTY JAIL AND/OR A $1,000 FINE OR IT CAN WOBBLE. IT COULD BE CHARGED WITH A FELONY WHERE THE MAXIMUM CONFINEMENT IS THREE YEARS AND A $10,000 FINE.

VAL>> SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE DEGREE OF THE VIOLATION?

KEVIN ROSS>> AND WHOEVER IS THE PERPETRATOR IN TERMS IF THEY HAD A PRIOR RECORD OR WHAT ATTEMPTS DID THEY MAKE TO MAKE RESTITUTION.

JESS>> AND, JUDGE ROSS, GOING BACK AGAIN TO HOW PEOPLE CAN PREVENT THIS KIND OF THEFT. AT SERVICE STATIONS NOW WHERE WE ALL PUT THE CREDIT CARD IN AND THAT'S CURRENTLY YOUR RECEIPT, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN A RECEIPT LEFT IN THERE?

KEVIN ROSS>> OH, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, BEING IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ARENA AND BEING A JUDGE, I HAVE BECOME SO MINDFUL OF THAT BECAUSE I'VE HAD INDIVIDUALS BEFORE ME WHO THEY'RE LIKE, "BUT I'M STILL SCREWED AS A VICTIM". BECAUSE OFTENTIMES WHAT HAPPENS IS, IF YOU DON'T GET SOME SORT OF FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION OF INNOCENCE, THAT WILL APPEAR ON YOUR CREDIT REPORT. AND I'M SURE PEOPLE, EVEN AS WE'RE LISTENING, EVEN WHO ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW, HAVE BEEN IN AN EXPERIENCE WHERE THEY CAN'T RECTIFY THE SITUATION EVEN THOUGH THE PERSON'S BEEN FOUND GUILTY, EVEN THOUGH THEY WENT TO COURT. SOMETIMES WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO, THEY'LL COME TO COURT -- LET'S SAY A PERSON PLEADS GUILTY AND THEN THE PERSON THINKS, OH, OKAY, THAT'S DONE. NO, NO. YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU GET SOME SORT OF DOCUMENTATION FROM THE COURT SAYING THAT PERSON WAS FOUND GUILTY. I WAS NOT THE PERSON WHO WAS INVOLVED WITH CHARGING UP THIS DEBT. BECAUSE WHEN YOUR CREDITORS ARE LOOKING TO YOU TO SAY, WELL, WHAT'S GOING ON, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION.

VAL>> SO THERE'S TWO PRONGS. ONE IS FINDING THE GUILTY PERSON AND THE OTHER IS AFFIRMATIVELY CLEARING YOUR OWN RECORD.

KEVIN ROSS>> CLEARING YOUR NAME. AND EVEN IF THE PERSON WHO IS -- IN SOME STATES, THEY DON'T EVEN OFFER PENALTIES FOR PEOPLE WHO ENGAGE IN THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR. SO IF YOU'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE HERE IN CALIFORNIA AND SOMEONE IN TEXAS IS ENGAGING IN ACTIVITY, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE LAW IS IN TEXAS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET IN CONTACT WITH THE LOCAL TEXAS AGENCY AND MANDATE THAT THEY FILE A POLICE REPORT, THAT THEY GIVE YOU A COPY OF IT, THAT YOU THEN TAKE THAT POLICE REPORT, YOU CONTACT YOUR CREDITORS, YOU CONTACT DMV, BUT, SEE, BETTER TO DO THAT. WHAT I JUST TELL PEOPLE NOW IS, EVERY FEW MONTHS OR SO, YOU SHOULD BE KNOWING WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOUR CREDIT REPORT.

VAL>> DOES THAT SIMPLY MEAN GETTING A COPY OF IT?

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY, AND OFTENTIMES THEY'RE FREE.

JESS>> THE VICTIMS OF IDENTITY THEFT ARE NOT JUST THE LIVING, BUT SOMETIMES THE DEAD, ARE THEY NOT?

KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY. THE DIFFERENCE IS, THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN THE LIVING WORLD, WE'RE DEALING WITH THE RAMIFICATIONS OF IT, SO MUCH SO THAT --

JESS>> -- BUT SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS OF DEAD PEOPLE HAVE BEEN USED.

KEVIN ROSS>> PEOPLE USE BABIES. YOU KNOW, MY WIFE WAS SAYING, WELL, WHAT ABOUT IF SOMEONE USES AN INFANT'S CREDIT NUMBER? BUT THEY'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE RAMIFICATIONS OF IT AS IMMEDIATE AS SOMEONE LIKE YOU AND I WHO WOULD HAVE TO THEN GO GET THAT HOUSE OR GO GET THAT LOWER INTEREST RATE, AND THEN WE'RE SAYING I DIDN'T DO THIS OR I DIDN'T DO THIS CHARGE. THE OTHER INTERESTING NOTE I WANTED TO DIRECT YOU TO, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE BEGINNING IN SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR WILL ESTABLISH A DATABASE AND THAT DATABASE IS FOR VICTIMS. THEY CAN AUTHORIZE CREDITORS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THEIR ACTIVITIES, TO USE THAT DATABASE TO CLEAR THEM AND SHOW THAT THEY HAVE, IN FACT, GONE THROUGH ALL THE NECESSARY STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CLEARED OF ANY TYPE OF SUSPICIOUS --

VAL>> -- SO IT'S A DATABASE OF VICTIMS WHO ARE NOW --

KEVIN ROSS>> -- WHO WERE VICTIMIZED BY IDENTITY THEFT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COURT ORDER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SET OF FINGERPRINTS ON HAND, BUT YOU CAN AUTHORIZE ANY AGENCY TO GO TO THAT. AT LEAST, YOU'RE NOT SO BUSY RUNNING AROUND TRYING TO KEY ALL THESE FOLKS ONLINE TO WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOU, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE VIEWERS SHOULD BE AWARE OF.

VAL>> WHEW, HOPE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ME. QUICK QUESTION, DOES IT HELP IF YOU HAVE ANY UNUSUAL NAME VERSUS A COMMON NAME?

KEVIN ROSS>> OH, ABSOLUTELY, BUT LAST YEAR ALONE, ABOUT 800,000 AMERICANS WERE VICTIMS OF IDENTITY THEFT.

JESS>> WAS JUDGE KEVIN ROSS AMONG THEM?

VAL>> (LAUGHTER)

JESS>> COMMON NAME.

KEVIN ROSS>> NOW YOU'RE GETTING INTO SOME UNCOMFORTABLE AREAS. (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> THANK YOU, JUDGE ROSS. WE'LL SEE YOU IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT PRIVACY WEB SITES, YOU CAN CHECK THESE WEB SITES THERE ON YOUR SCREEN RIGHT NOW. THEY WILL HAVE TIPS, INFORMATION AND SOME RECOURSE IN CASE YOU ARE A VICTIM OF IDENTITY THEFT.

PRIVACY RIGHTS CLEARINGHOUSE
PRC@PRIVACYRIGHTS.ORG

CA. ATTORNEY GENERAL
CAAG.STATE.CA.US/
(CLICK "IDENTITY THEFT")

VAL>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A VICTIM? WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. HERE ARE THE WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

VAL>> IN TONIGHT'S PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS, A STORY OF INTOLERANCE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO BELONG TO SO-CALLED STRAIGHT FRATERNITIES AND SORORITIES. IT'S A WORLD WHERE BEING OPENLY GAY ISN'T JUST DIFFICULT, IT'S ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED.

JESS>> OUR STORY TONIGHT COMES FROM A USC JOURNALISM STUDENT WHO ORIGINALLY DID THE REPORT FOR THE CAMPUS NEWS PROGRAM "IMPACT". THIS STORY IS PART OF OUR CONTINUING LOOK AT COMPELLING TELEVISION DONE BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE CONVENTIONAL MEDIA CIRCLE. TONIGHT'S STORY ON GAY GREEKS COMES FROM KRIS VAN CLEAVE.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> WHEN MOST OF US THINK OF A FRAT HOUSE, WE PICTURE A BASTION OF MALE BONDING STRICTLY RESERVED FOR STRAIGHT WHITE MALES. BUT MORE AND MORE GUYS LIKE DAVID BOND ARE SLOWLY CHANGING THAT IMAGE. DAVID IS ONE OF THE GROWING NUMBER OF COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO ARE BOTH GAY AND GREEK.

MIKE LOGAN>> THERE ARE A LOT OF GAY MEN IN FRATERNITIES.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> GAY IN A WORLD WHERE MANY LIKE JUNIOR, MIKE LOGAN, FEEL THEY DON'T BELONG.

DAVID BOND>> WHY WOULD A GAY GUY WANT TO JOIN A FRATERNITY, YOU KNOW? FRATERNITIES ARE ABOUT GETTING WOMEN AND DRINKING BEER.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> IN THIS ULTIMATE BOYS CLUB, BOYS WHO LIKE BOYS AREN'T ALWAYS WELCOME. BUT A RECENT STUDY BY GAY RIGHTS GROUP, THE LAMBDA 10 PROJECT, SAYS FIVE TO SIX PERCENT OF FRATERNITY MEMBERS ARE GAY OR BISEXUAL.

[FILM CLIP]

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> IN SORORITIES, THE NUMBER IS CLOSER TO THREE TO FOUR PERCENT.

DAVID BOND>> MOST GAY GREEK MEN THAT I KNOW ARE VERY CLOSETED AND THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE JOINED HAD THEY KNOWN THEY WERE GAY.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> IN DAVID'S CASE, HE HOPED JOINING A FRATERNITY WOULD KEEP HIM FROM BEING GAY, WHILE OTHERS, ACCORDING TO THE LAMBDA 10 STUDY, JOIN NOT EVEN KNOWING THAT THEY ARE GAY.

DAVID BOND>> I WAS PROBABLY 17 WHEN I REALIZED THAT I WAS PROBABLY GAY. I DIDN'T ALLOW MYSELF TO BELIEVE IT UNTIL I WAS 21 YEARS OLD AND A LOT OF IT HAD TO DO WITH BEING IN A FRATERNITY.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> AND DAVID'S NOT ALONE. OTHER GAY GREEK MEN THAT WE SPOKE TO SAID THEY'VE BEEN MORE OR LESS ACCEPTED BY THEIR HOUSE, BUT DECLINED OUR OFFER TO SPEAK ON CAMERA BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED HOW THEIR FRATERNITY BROTHERS MIGHT RESPOND TO THE INTERVIEW.

THE LAMBDA 10 STUDY ALSO REVEALS THE MAJORITY OF GAYS IN THE GREEK SYSTEM WILL TRY AND KEEP THEIR SEXUALITY A SECRET, IN PART BECAUSE OF UNWRITTEN RULES SIMILAR TO THE MILITARY'S "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL" POLICY.

MIKE LOGAN>> YOU'RE SITTING AROUND TALKING ABOUT YOUR ESCAPADES ON THE WEEKENDS WITH GUYS OR, YOU KNOW, BRING A GUY TO A FORMAL OR INVITE A BUNCH OF HOMOSEXUAL GUYS TO A PARTY, A FRATERNITY PARTY. I MEAN, THAT BETTER NOT GO ON.

ANTHONY GRESSAK>> IF IT WAS IN OUR HOUSE, I WOULD LOOK AT IT LIKE, WHOA, THERE'S A GAY GUY IN OUR HOUSE AND PROBABLY, LIKE, RIDICULE HIM.

ERIC SCHOCKMAN>> WHAT A SAD, SAD REALITY --

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> ERIC SCHOCKMAN IS ASSOCIATE DEAN OF STUDENT AFFAIRS AND A GENDER STUDIES PROFESSOR.

ERIC SCHOCKMAN>> -- THAT A PERSON CAN'T BE WHO THEY ARE AND THAT THEIR BROTHERS CAN'T UNDERSTAND THEIR NEEDS. I THINK, TO A LARGE DEGREE, ITS UNWRITTEN RULES REALLY DIMINISH PEOPLE AND REALLY HURT PEOPLE.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> MANY FRATERNITY MEMBERS, GAY AND STRAIGHT, BELIEVE THESE UNWRITTEN RULES COME FROM A FRATERNITY'S FEAR OF BEING LABELED AS A GAY HOUSE, SO EVEN WHEN A PERSON COMES OUT TO THEIR FRATERNITY BROTHERS, THEY'RE EXPECTED TO KEEP THEIR SEXUALITY A SECRET FROM OTHER FRATERNITIES.

MIKE LOGAN>> AS LONG AS HE ACTS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THERE'S NOT REALLY A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW? AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT ANY GUYS THAT HE'S BEEN SEEING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

DAVID BOND>> IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE FOR ME TO SAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT RELATE TO ME BEING GAY.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> DAVID FIRST CAME OUT TO FIVE OF HIS FRATERNITY BROTHERS AND THEN, SEVERAL MONTHS LATER, HE TOLD THE ENTIRE HOUSE.

DAVID BOND>> YOU BUILD UP FOR WEEKS AND YOU THINK IT'S TOTALLY TRAUMATIZING YOU. YOU KNOW, LIKE, I'M GOING TO TELL THIS PERSON I'M GAY. HOW IS HE GOING TO REACT? AND FOR HIM TO JUST GO, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S IT?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> HE SAYS MOST OF HIS BROTHERS HAVE BEEN FINE WITH HIM BEING GAY, BUT NOT ALL ARE COMFORTABLE WITH HIS SEXUALITY.

DAVID BOND>> I WALK INTO THE LIVING ROOM AND THERE'S A GROUP OF GUYS WATCHING TELEVISION AND THEY LOOK UP AT ME AND SOMEHOW THEY FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE LIKE I'M GOING TO RAPE THEM OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW? THEY, LIKE, SCOOT AWAY ON THE COUCH, WHICH IS DISHEARTENING. THERE'S A HANDFUL OF GUYS THAT ARE JUST, THAT'S WRONG, YOU KNOW? THEY SAY WORDS LIKE FAG OR FAGOT, BUT THEY'RE THE SAME KIND OF PEOPLE THAT USE THE WORD NIGGER.

ERIC SCHOCKMAN>> YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO LOVE, YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO ACCEPT, BUT YOU CAN EDUCATE THEM AND MAKE THEM A BETTER HUMAN BEING IN THE PROCESS.

DAVID BOND>> A LOT OF THESE MEN HAVE NEVER SPENT ANY KIND OF TIME WITH A GAY PERSON, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THEY KNOW ANYTHING OF BEING GAY IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW ME. SO I FEEL LIKE ANY SMALL STEP THAT I CAN CREATE TOWARD ANY KIND OF ACCEPTANCE OR TOWARD THE BENEFIT OF THE NEXT GAY MEMBER OF MY FRATERNITY IS A GOOD ONE.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS TERRY ANZUR. SHE IS A PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AT USC AND YOU'VE KNOWN HER FROM NEWS HERE IN LOS ANGELES. AND KRIS VAN CLEAVE, WHO IS A USC JOURNALISM STUDENT WHO PRODUCED THE PIECE. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TERRY ANZUR>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> TERRY AND KRIS, THIS IS THE GENERATION THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ENLIGHTENED. UNIVERSITY STUDENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SO SOPHISTICATED IN THIS AREA, BUT THIS SOUNDS LIKE BARRACKS TALK.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> TO AN EXTENT, IT IS. I THINK PART OF IT IS THE FRATERNITY SYSTEM, SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ATTRACTED THAT HAVEN'T BEEN EXPOSED TO ALL THE AVENUES OF LIFE THAT OUR GENERATION GETS, SO PEOPLE TEND TO BECOME MORE ACCEPTING OF GAYS AND LESBIANS ONCE THEY'VE BEEN AROUND THEM. THIS IS A PART OF THE SEGMENT OF USC WHERE WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN EXPOSED TO IT MUCH.

VAL>> AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S A LOT OF PEER PRESSURE STILL IN COLLEGE.

TERRY ANZUR>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT USC AS A WHOLE IS COMMITTED VERY STRONGLY TO DIVERSITY OF ALL KINDS. IN FACT, AT THE ANNENBERG SCHOOL, WE'RE DOING SOME GROUNDBREAKING WORK IN GAY AND LESBIAN ISSUES IN THE NEWS. ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE TO COMMEND KRIS FOR IN DOING THIS PIECE IS THAT HE WAS FEARLESS ABOUT TAKING ON THIS STORY, EVEN WHEN PROFESSORS SAID YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET PEOPLE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS ON THE ROW. HE PERSEVERED, HE CONVINCED PEOPLE TO GO ON CAMERA AND BALANCE THE STORY AND REALLY SHED LIGHT ON AN ISSUE THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT. KRIS, YOU CAN PROBABLY TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE TRYING TO DO THIS.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> WELL, ACROSS THE BOARD, PEOPLE DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S AN UNCOMFORTABLE SUBJECT.

JESS>> ON EITHER SIDE.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> ON ANY SIDE. IT WAS VERY HARD TO FIND A UNIVERSITY OFFICIAL, PROFESSOR, TO TALK ON THE ATMOSPHERE INSIDE THE ROW AND IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND GAY STUDENTS TO TALK, OBVIOUSLY. THE EASIEST PART OF THE PIECE WAS ACTUALLY FINDING THE FRATERNITY GUYS WHO WEREN'T COMFORTABLE ABOUT BEING AROUND GAY PEOPLE, WHICH SURPRISED ME BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE REALLY KIND OF HARD TO DO.

VAL>> WAS IT DIFFICULT SHOOTING ON SORORITY ROW OR FRATERNITY ROW?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> I RAN INTO SOME TROUBLE WITH THAT. I WAS OUT SHOOTING JUST SOME VIDEO AND ONE OF THE SORORITIES WAS DOING A, YOU KNOW, RUSH WEEK YELL ACTIVITY IN THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE. I TAPED IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT MIGHT WORK NICELY INTO THE PIECE AND THEY GOT UPSET, SAYING THAT I VIOLATED THEIR PRIVACY. THEY WERE OUTSIDE AND THEY FLAGGED DOWN AN LAPD OFFICER WHO DECIDED I WAS CREATING A DISTURBANCE BY BEING THERE AND THE MAN ORDERED ME TO LEAVE THE ROW.

JESS>> YOU TALK ABOUT RUSH, THOSE GAY AND LESBIAN STUDENTS WHO ARE TRYING TO GET INTO FRATERNITIES AND SORORITIES, MY GUESS IS, THE BULK OF THEM ARE WASHED OUT DURING THE RUSH PERIOD.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> I THINK THE ONES THAT ARE OPEN, CERTAINLY. DAVID AND NONE OF THE OTHER GAY STUDENTS THAT I SPOKE TO IN THIS WERE OPEN AT THE TIME. THEY EITHER HADN'T REALIZED IT OR JUST CHOSE NOT TO DISCLOSE IT.

JESS>> SO YOU CAN BE IN THE HOUSE, BUT YOU GOT TO STAY IN THE CLOSET.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> PRETTY MUCH.

VAL>> KRIS VAN CLEAVE AND TERRY ANZUR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING BY. CONGRATULATIONS. I UNDERSTAND IT'S UP FOR AN AWARD. HOPE YOU WIN.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> GREAT JOURNALISM.

JESS>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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