4/3/03

LC030403

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> PUTTING A FACE ON THE WAR IN IRAQ. IN SOME OF L.A.’S MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT’S PRETTY EASY TO DO.

CARLENE BUTLER>> HE’S OVER THERE FIGHTING IN THE WAR AND HE GAVE US A PICTURE OF HIM TO REMEMBER HIM SO, IF HE DIES, WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE A PICTURE AND, IF HE DIES, HE’LL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART.

VAL>> AND THEN WE’LL GET ANOTHER VIEW OF THE BATTLEFIELD FROM A PEACE ACTIVIST WHO SUPPORTS THE OUSTER OF SADDAM HUSSEIN.

JESS>> PLUS, WE’LL ADMIRE THE TREASURES OF A CLASSIC LOS ANGELES NEIGHBORHOOD, THE WEST ADAMS DISTRICT.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> EARLY CASUALTIES IN THE WAR WITH IRAQ.

JESS>> IN CALIFORNIA, THERE’S BEEN A HEAVY TOLL AMONG PEOPLE OF COLOR. CLEARLY ALL SORTS OF AMERICANS ARE FIGHTING AND DYING ON THE BATTLEFIELD, BUT IN LOS ANGELES, THE WAR IS HITTING SOME MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS VERY HARD. AND AS TONI GUINYARD REPORTS, EVEN THOSE WHO DON’T SUPPORT THE WAR ARE OBSESSED WITH EVERY NEW DEVELOPMENT.

TONI GUINYARD>> AS ADULTS SHARE THEIR OPINIONS ON THE WAR, CHILDREN ARE LISTENING AND WATCHING. THIS FIFTH GRADE CLASS AT WEEMES ELEMENTARY IN SOUTH LOS ANGELES HAS GOOD REASON TO. THEIR TEACHER, EDWARD WANDRICK, IS IN THE RESERVES. HE IS, AS STUDENTS WILL TELL YOU, OVER THERE IN IRAQ.

>> HE’S FIGHTING FOR US. THAT’S WHAT HE TOLD US.

ANNETTE KESSLER>> THEY’RE OUR FUTURE AND IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIM TO BE WHERE HE IS BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN THE WAR AND IN WHAT WE’RE DOING AND IN HIS COUNTRY AND IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO COME BACK TO HIS KIDS AND MAKE SURE THAT THEIR FUTURE IS SAFE AND A BETTER PLACE FOR THEM TO BE.

>> I WANT YOU TO TAKE OUT YOUR LETTERS THAT YOU WROTE.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE STUDENTS ARE WRITING LETTERS TO THEIR TEACHER.

CARLENE BUTLER>> IF YOU SEND US A LETTER, COULD YOU TELL US HOW KUWAIT LOOKS?

TONI GUINYARD>> CARLENE BUTLER HAS FINISHED HERS, BUT SHE’S ALSO THINKING ABOUT HER COUSIN.

CARLENE BUTLER>> HE’S OVER THERE FIGHTING IN THE WAR AND HE GAVE US A PICTURE OF HIM TO REMEMBER HIM SO, IF HE DIES, WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE A PICTURE AND, IF HE DIES, HE’LL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART.

TONI GUINYARD>> THAT’S A PRETTY TALL ORDER FOR A FIFTH GRADER TO DEAL WITH, DON’T YOU THINK?

CARLENE BUTLER>> YEAH.

TONI GUINYARD>> FOR MOST OF THE STUDENTS HERE, THE TEACHER IS THEIR ONLY CONNECTION TO THE WAR. IT MAKES WHAT THEY SEE ON TV SO PERSONAL.

AMANDA SUZUKAWA>> WHEN I SEE THE WAR, I ALWAYS WONDER IF HE’S OKAY BECAUSE IT SCARES ME THAT HE’S IN A WAR.

TONI GUINYARD>> THIS CONNECTION BRINGS THE WAR CLOSE TO HOME FOR THEM AND MOST OF THE OTHER STUDENTS IN THE SCHOOL. EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK IN THE OFFICE, IN A HALLWAY, IS A REMINDER THAT SOMEONE THEY KNOW IS INVOLVED IN A WAR SO FAR AWAY.

LANCE PEYTON>> THE WAR CAN BE VERY FEARFUL FOR OUR CHILDREN. BUT FORTUNATELY FOR US IN THIS COUNTRY, IT’S VERY, VERY FAR AWAY AND IT’S ONLY SHOWN ON TV SCREENS.

[TELEMUNDO TV]

TONI GUINYARD>> WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS OF THE WAR, EMPLOYEES AT TELEMUNDO LEARNED HOW POWERFUL TELEVISION IS IN PROVIDING A LINK BETWEEN ENLISTED MEN AND WOMEN AND THEIR FAMILIES. WATCHING THE WAR TAKES A TOLL ON ALL COMMUNITIES, BUT IT’S ESPECIALLY TRUE IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE MOSTLY LATINO OR AFRICAN-AMERICAN. THOSE TWO GROUPS COMPRISE A BIG PART OF THE CALIFORNIA CONTINGENT TO OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM AND THERE’S NOTHING NEW ABOUT PEOPLE OF COLOR FIGHTING AMERICA’S BATTLES.

LANCE PEYTON>> WHEN I JOINED THE SERVICE MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, THAT’S HOW I WAS ABLE TO SEE A PART OF THE WORLD THAT I NEVER WOULD HAVE SEEN BEFORE. BUT THE DOWNSIDE IS ALMOST LIKE A RACIAL INEQUALITY BECAUSE WE ARE, IN FACT, OVER-REPRESENTED. IT’S ALMOST LIKE THE MINORITIES HAVE BECOME CANNON FODDER FOR WHATEVER ADMINISTRATION HAPPENS TO DECIDE TO GO TO WAR.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE EARLY CALIFORNIA CASUALTIES IN IRAQ HAVE BEEN MOSTLY LATINO. THAT’S ONE REASON SPANISH LANGUAGE TV OUTLETS SUCH AS TELEMUNDO ARE SEEING A HUGE SPIKE IN THEIR NEWS RATINGS.

RAMON ESCOBAR>> PROBABLY WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR TO FORTY-EIGHT HOURS, WE KNEW THAT THE AUDIENCE WAS RESPONDING, BUT AT FIRST, IT’S OKAY. WE’RE AT WAR AND EVERYONE IS INTERESTED. BUT THEN AS WE GOT INTO THE THIRD AND FOURTH DAY, THE AMOUNT OF VIEWERS WAS SO ASTRONOMICAL BASED ON WHERE WE WERE BEFORE THE WAR THAT WE KNEW SOMETHING WAS GOING ON.

MIRTHALA SALINAS>> THE COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW IS VERY INTERESTED IN WHAT’S GOING ON IN IRAQ BECAUSE 25,000 SOLDIERS THAT ARE THERE RIGHT NOW ARE HISPANIC OR OF HISPANIC ORIGIN AND A LOT OF THEM ARE FROM LOS ANGELES, THE L.A. AREA.

TONI GUINYARD>> A FURTHER IRONY IS THAT MANY RECENT LATINO IMMIGRANTS RELATE TO THE PLIGHT OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE. RECENT POLLS SHOW THEY AND OTHER MINORITIES ARE MUCH LESS SUPPORTIVE OF THE WAR THAN THE OVERALL WHITE POPULATION, BUT THEY CONTINUE WATCHING AND WORRYING.

JACQUELINE LLAMAS>> THEY’RE REALLY SCARED. I THINK THAT THEY WATCH MORE TV NOW MORE THAN EVER. FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE NO JOBS OUT THERE. IT’S REALLY HARD FOR THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHAT’S GOING ON. IT’S REALLY HARD FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHY MORE LATINOS ARE GOING INTO WAR NOW. YOU HAVE THE CITIZENSHIP ISSUE.

RAMON ESCOBAR>> I THINK, IN GENERAL, WE’VE SEEN THEY SUPPORT THE COUNTRY. I MEAN, THEY SUPPORT THE COUNTRY THAT THEY COME TO, THAT THEY’VE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN, THAT HAS GIVEN THEM AN OPPORTUNITY. I THINK, IN GENERAL, LIKE THE CLICHÉ GOES, THEY DON’T SUPPORT THE POLICY, BUT THEY SUPPORT THE FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN.

TONI GUINYARD>> NO ONE CAN BLAME THE DRAFT. EVERY U.S. SOLDIER IN IRAQ SIGNED UP VOLUNTARILY. BUT MANY LATINOS AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS CLAIM THEY DID SO FOR OPPORTUNITIES THEY COULDN’T FIND IN THE CIVILIAN WORLD. THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR MANY WHITES, BUT SOME CLAIM IT’S MORE COMMON AMONG MINORITIES. IT’S BEEN THE SUBJECT OF DEBATES AND NEWS REPORTS, BUT THESE CHILDREN BACK AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL DON’T SEEM TO CARE.

>> BECAUSE KIDS DON’T SEE COLOR. THEY DON’T SEE THE DIFFERENCES. THEY’RE JUST KIDS.

JESS>> TONI JOINS US NOW. IT’S NO SECRET, CERTAINLY, THAT THOSE WHO ARE FIGHTING AND SERVING, WHETHER THEY’RE OF COLOR OR NOT, ALL VOLUNTEERED.

TONI GUINYARD>> YOU BET. THIS IS AN ALL-VOLUNTEER MILITARY IN THE UNITED STATES. IT’S A POINT THAT I KEEP HEARING OVER AND OVER. NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO JOIN THE MILITARY.

JESS>> IT’S BEEN THE SUGGESTION THAT A REINSTATEMENT OF THE DRAFT WOULD EVEN ALL THIS OUT.

TONI GUINYARD>> THAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED, BUT WHAT’S REALLY GOING TO WORK? I HEARD ONE COMMENT THAT THE MILITARY IS THE ONLY REAL FORCE THAT SUPPORTS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECRUITMENT AND TRYING TO GET DIFFERENT MINORITIES INTO THE MILITARY. YOU COULD JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.

VAL>> BUT THAT’S ALSO PART OF THE COMPLAINT BECAUSE THERE ARE MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS WHO SAY THAT THE MILITARY RECRUITS MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVELY IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU KNOW, TO GET THESE YOUNG PEOPLE INTO THE SERVICE AND THEN THEY’RE THE ONES WHO ARE IN THE LINE OF FIRE.

JESS>> AND MUCH MORE SUCCESSFULLY.

TONI GUINYARD>> WELL, YOU’VE GOT TO REMEMBER, THE MILITARY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IS A GREAT OPTION. IT OFFERS OPPORTUNITIES. THE GENTLEMAN WE HEARD --

VAL>> -- PAYS FOR COLLEGE.

TONI GUINYARD>> -- IN THE PIECE WAS TALKING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO TRAVEL. HE WAS ABLE TO SEE THE WORLD.

JESS>> AND MOST WOULD AGREE THAT THERE IS GREATER RACIAL EQUALITY IN THE MILITARY THAN IN ANY OTHER AREA OF SOCIETY.

TONI GUINYARD>> AND THAT’S THE POINT I WAS HEARING.

VAL>> BUT I CAN ALSO UNDERSTAND WHY THE LATINO COMMUNITY IS SO ATTACHED TO THEIR TELEVISIONS BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE VERY FIRST CASUALTIES WAS A GUATEMALAN ORPHAN WHO IMMIGRATED HERE ILLEGALLY, BECAME LEGAL AND THEN ENDED UP DYING IN IRAQ. IT’S THOSE STORIES THAT HAVE TO REALLY TOUCH THEIR COMMUNITY DEEPLY.

TONI GUINYARD>> WELL, EVEN MORE, WHAT REALLY INTERESTED ME IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE STORIES FAR AWAY FROM THE BATTLEFIELD THAT ARE IMPACTED BY THE WAR. ONE OF THEM IS AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. THE ENTIRE LATINO COMMUNITY IS LOOKING AT THIS AND THESE ARE THE STORIES THAT THAT PARTICULAR STATION IS LOOKING AT. JOB SECURITY. JOBS ARE FALLING BY THE WAYSIDE. ALL OF THESE ARE CONNECTED WITH THE WAR. IT’S A LONG WAY AWAY, BUT IT’S IMPACTING A LOT OF PEOPLE.

VAL>> AND A NICE MOVE THAT SOME OF THOSE CASUALTIES WERE POSTHUMOUSLY MADE CITIZENS, WHICH IS A WONDERFUL MOVE.

TONI GUINYARD>> YES.

VAL>> TONI GUINYARD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, TURNING TO TRIBAL CASINOS AS A SOURCE OF CASH FOR CURING CALIFORNIA’S HUGE DEFICIT, BUT NATIVE-AMERICANS HAVE GOOD REASON TO HOLD ONTO THEIR MONEY.

>> I’VE SEEN IT, YOU KNOW? I’VE SEEN IT AS A TRIBAL COUNCIL PERSON. YOU SEE SMILES ON PEOPLES’ FACES NOW AND YOU SEE THEM DRIVING NICER CARS AND WEARING NICER CLOTHES. IT’S GREAT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” POLL. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> HE SPEAKS FIVE LANGUAGES, GREW UP IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND HAS STUDIED THE BIBLE, THE KORAN AND MIDDLE EASTERN HISTORY, BUT THAT DOESN’T EXPLAIN WHY MARK LEVINE WOULD GET ON A BUS IN JERUSALEM IN SPITE OF THE RISK OF SUICIDE BOMBERS.

VAL>> IN THE LATE NINETIES, LEVINE SPENT TIME IN THE WEST BANK TRYING TO STOP VIOLENCE BETWEEN ISRAELI SOLDIERS AND PALESTINIANS. THESE DAYS, HE’S OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE AND SPENDS HIS TIME SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THE ONGOING CRISIS BETWEEN ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS. MARK LEVINE JOINS US NOW. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

MARK LEVINE>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

JESS>> THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE CONCERNED THAT, BECAUSE OF THE WAR IN IRAQ, WE ARE IGNORING THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION. WOULD YOU AGREE?

MARK LEVINE>> ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, I THINK SINCE THE WAR HAS STARTED, THE REPRESSION OF PALESTINIANS HAS CERTAINLY BEEN STEPPED UP BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. BUT I THINK, IN FACT, THAT WHAT’S GOING ON BOTH IN IRAQ AND IN PALESTINE AND ISRAEL IS ACTUALLY A SYMPTOM OF A MUCH LARGER SYSTEMIC PROBLEM. I THINK TO JUST FOCUS ON EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER IS TO ACTUALLY MISS THE LARGER POINT THAT IT’S THE ENTIRE SYSTEM THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE CHALLENGED AND, IN SOME WAY, TRANSFORMED.

JESS>> YOU SAY SYSTEMIC, BUT IS IT ALSO REGIONAL?

MARK LEVINE>> NO. I MEAN, IN FACT, IT’S PART OF A LARGER WAY THAT THE WORLD ECONOMY WORKS, ABSOLUTELY, BUT YOU CAN’T START WITH THE WHOLE WORLD. IT’S HARD ENOUGH ACTUALLY TO START BY TRYING TO BRING REAL PEACE AND JUSTICE TO THE MIDDLE EAST AT LARGE.

VAL>> BUT WHEN YOU SAY IT’S SYSTEMIC, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO ATTACK THE SYSTEM, THAT’S VERY ABSTRACT. WHAT SYSTEM ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, I MEAN, THE SYSTEM IS THAT REALLY SINCE THE UNITED STATES BECAME INVOLVED IN IRAQ OR IN THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST IN THE 1930’S AND CERTAINLY IN THE POST-WAR ERA, REALLY WE HAVE DONE NOTHING TO BRING REAL DEMOCRACY, PEACE, JUSTICE OR DEVELOPMENT TO THE REGION. IT’S JUST ABSOLUTE HISTORICAL FACT.

WHEN PRESIDENT BUSH TALKS ABOUT WANTING TO DO THESE THINGS, AS A HISTORIAN, I REALLY CAN’T UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN ALL OUR POLICIES ARE ACTUALLY TO DENY THESE VERY THINGS THROUGH POLICIES OF SUPPORTING INCREDIBLY REPRESSIVE REGIMES, INCLUDING PUTTING SADDAM IN POWER TWICE WITH THE CIA IN THE 1960’S AND SUPPORTING HIM REALLY UNTIL HE BETRAYED US IN 1990 WITH THE INVASION OF KUWAIT.

THIS IS PART OF A LARGER SYSTEM. ISRAEL IS PART OF THIS SYSTEM IN THE SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL IN THE MILITARY AND POLITICAL SUPPORT. SAUDI ARABIA CERTAINLY IS A LYNCHPIN OF THIS SYSTEM. EGYPT, TURKEY, I MEAN, ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY IN THE REGION, ESPECIALLY OUR ALLIES, ARE PART OF THIS SYSTEM. BRINGING REAL DEMOCRACY THERE AND REAL PEACE AND JUSTICE WOULD ENTAIL SOMEHOW CHALLENGING, IF NOT ENDING, THE EXISTING SYSTEM.

JESS>> IN LOOKING AT YOUR BACKGROUND AND YOUR WRITINGS, YOU ARE SOMEWHAT CONFLICTED BY BEING CERTAINLY IN FAVOR OF PEACE, BUT ALSO ANXIOUS TO GET RID OF SADDAM HUSSEIN, DECLARING HIM A WAR CRIMINAL, BUT SEVERAL OTHERS GET THAT LABEL IN YOUR WRITINGS TOO.

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO BE COMPLETELY AND BRUTALLY HONEST ABOUT EVERY REGIME IN THE REGION. I THINK THE SINGULAR ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT, WHICH I'VE BEEN A PART OF SINCE IT BEGAN AND I SUPPORT WHOLEHEARTEDLY, IS THE FACT THAT THEY'VE HELPED AMERICANS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE REASONS BEHIND THIS WAR THAT THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE STATED ARE NOT THE REASONS PROBABLY THAT REALLY EXIST WHY WE'RE GOING TO WAR. AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE MAIN PROBLEMS IS THAT WE DID NOT GIVE A COHERENT ALTERNATIVE TO BUSH'S WAR SCENARIO. SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT YOU HAVE --

VAL>> -- I'M SORRY, YOU SAY WE. THE PEACE MOVEMENT DID NOT --

MARK LEVINE>> -- THE PEACE MOVEMENT OF ANTI-WAR COALITION --

VAL>> -- AND WHO DID NOT COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE.

MARK LEVINE>> NO, AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO SO WAS TO BEGIN BY ADDRESSING THE FACT THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN IS A MURDEROUS TYRANT WHO'S KILLED WELL OVER A MILLION PEOPLE OF HIS OWN AND, OF COURSE, IRANIANS AND THEN KUWAITIS.

JESS>> BUT YOU ALSO CALL ARIAL SHARON AND YASSER ARAFAT WAR CRIMINALS.

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, BECAUSE THEY ARE. I MEAN, WHY IS IT THAT WE HAVE TO IGNORE ONE IN ORDER TO FOCUS ATTENTION ON THE OTHER?

JESS>> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PUT GEORGE BUSH IN THAT CATEGORY, ARE YOU?

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, YOU SEE, THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE IT DEPENDS HOW YOU DEFINE WAR CRIMES. I MEAN, WHEN I SAY WAR CRIMES, I TRY TO STICK TO THE VERY EXPLICIT DEFINITION OF THE GENEVA AND HAGUE CONVENTIONS. RIGHT NOW TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DO NOT KNOW THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS COMMITTED WAR CRIMES IN THIS WAR. HOWEVER, ONE COULD CERTAINLY SAY THAT THE WAY WE KEEP PRISONERS IN GUANTANAMO BAY IS IN FACT A VIOLATION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION AND CAN BE CONSTRUED AS A WAR CRIME. AGAIN, YOU NEED TO BE REALLY ACCURATE AND HONEST. BUT CERTAINLY IF THE WAR KEEPS ON GOING, AT SOME POINT WE'RE GOING TO KILL ENOUGH CIVILIANS AND ENGAGE IN --

JESS>> -- THE WAR ITSELF IS NOT A CRIME?

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, THE WAR IS A VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, ABSOLUTELY. THAT DOES NOT BY ITSELF MAKE IT SPECIFICALLY A WAR CRIME, WHICH HAS A VERY SPECIFIC INTERNATIONAL EQUAL DEFINITION.

VAL>> TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN ISRAEL. YOU'VE GONE INTO THE WEST BANK, YOU'VE GONE INTO SOME VERY, VERY DANGEROUS AREAS. VOLUNTARILY OR BECAUSE YOUR WORK TOOK YOU THERE OR WHAT?

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, I MEAN, I WAS IN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE IN THE MID AND LATE 90'S ESPECIALLY WHEN I LIVED THERE ON AND OFF FOR SEVERAL YEARS BECAUSE I WAS DOING WORK FOR MY DOCTORAL THESIS AND ALSO I WAS REPORTING THERE AS A JOURNALIST AND I WAS DOING WORK THERE ALSO AS A HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE AND AS A PEACE ACTIVIST, SO I WAS --

VAL>> -- BUT YOU ALSO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF SITUATIONS THAT YOU WOULD ENCOUNTER TO INSERT YOURSELF INTO SOME SORT OF MINI-PEACEMAKING, I GUESS.

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WHAT WE SEE NOW WITH THE INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT, RACHEL COREY, THAT POOR YOUNG WOMAN WHO WAS KILLED BY THE ISRAELI BULLDOZERS --

VAL>> -- THE HUMAN SHIELD.

MARK LEVINE>> YEAH, THE HUMAN SHIELD. THIS WORK HAS BEEN GOING ON ON A MORE AD HOC BASIS FOR YEARS. IN FACT, THERE WERE TEAMS LIKE THE CHRISTIAN PEACEMAKER TEAMS WHO WERE THERE IN THE MID-90'S. I WAS THERE AND I WOULD GO AND MEET WITH THESE PEOPLE. BASICALLY, AS THEY WOULD SEE ISRAELIS HARASSING PALESTINIANS, WHETHER IT WAS SETTLERS OR SOLDIERS, ENGAGING IN THINGS THAT CLEARLY VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW OR THEIR OWN ORDERS FROM THEIR SUPERIORS, WE WOULD TRY TO PREVENT THAT AND STOP IT AND REASON WITH THEM AND STOP THE VIOLENCE BEFORE IT HAD A CHANCE TO ESCALATE.

JESS>> HAD SHE BEEN A PALESTINIAN, WE WOULD HAVE CALLED HER A MARTYR?

MARK LEVINE>> IF SHE HAD BEEN A PALESTINIAN, WE WOULD HAVE IGNORED HER. I MEAN, THERE WAS A PALESTINIAN BOY TWELVE OR THIRTEEN YEARS OLD WHO WAS KILLED THE SAME DAY. NO ONE'S TALKING ABOUT HIM.

VAL>> AND TELL US ABOUT WHAT YOU WOULD DO WHEN YOU GOT ON THE BUSES THAT WERE ALWAYS AT RISK OF BEING HIT BY SUICIDE BOMBERS.

MARK LEVINE>> WELL, BASICALLY, BECAUSE I KNEW ARABIC, I WOULD SORT OF READ AN ARABIC NEWSPAPER AND HOPE THAT, IF A WOULD-BE SUICIDE BOMBER GOT ON THE BUS, MAYBE HE WOULD THINK, WELL, THIS GUY READS ARABIC, OR HE WOULDN'T EVEN SEE ME. HE'D JUST SEE THE ARABIC NEWSPAPER --

JESS>> -- YOU WERE TRYING TO PASS.

MARK LEVINE>> NOT PASS, BECAUSE I CERTAINLY CAN'T PASS AS A PALESTINIAN, BUT AT LEAST TO GIVE SOMEONE PAUSE. BUT BACK THEN, IT WASN'T SO USUAL FOR SUICIDE BOMBERS TO BLOW UP BUSES THAT HAD PALESTINIANS ON THEM. THIS LOGIC STOPPED WORKING A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THEY STARTED DOING THAT TOO.

VAL>> MARK LEVINE, I WISH WE COULD TALK WITH YOU FURTHER, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

MARK LEVINE>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF BABES. THAT'S HOW MANY NEW IMMIGRANTS NAVIGATE ENGLISH. THEY RELY ON THEIR KIDS OR SOMEONE ELSE'S TO PROVIDE THE TRANSLATION. BUT PATT SAYS THAT COULD SOON CHANGE IN CALIFORNIA. IT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> YOU'VE SEEN IT SO OFTEN THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT EVEN AWARE THAT IT'S HAPPENING. AT A BANK, AT THE DMV, AT A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, THERE STANDS SOME BRIGHT-EYED LITTLE CHILD ACTING AS TRANSLATOR FOR A PARENT WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH. THESE KIDS ARE OFTEN THEIR PARENTS' ONLY LINK TO THE OFFICIAL, THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING, WORLD. THEY ANSWER THE PHONE, THEY SORT THE BILLS, THEY HELP THEIR SIBLINGS WITH THEIR SCHOOLWORK. IT'S CALLED LANGUAGE BROKERING AND IT CAN MAKE CHILDREN INTO GROWNUPS WAY TOO EARLY.

NOW A SAN FRANCISCO ASSEMBLYMAN WHO KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE HE IMMIGRATED HERE FROM CHINA WHEN HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD WANTS TO KEEP CHILDREN FROM BEING PUT ON THE SPOT AS INTERPRETERS IN MEDICAL OR LEGAL OR PUBLIC SERVICE CIRCUMSTANCES. HIS BILL WOULD BAN STATE AGENCIES AND ORGANIZATIONS GETTING STATE MONEY FROM USING CHILDREN AS TRANSLATORS. INSTEAD, THEY COULD ENLIST VOLUNTEERS OR PAY THE PROFESSIONALS.

SOMETIMES IT'S ONLY AN ANNOYANCE LIKE BEING CALLED IN FROM PLAY TO INTERPRET, BUT SOMETIMES IT PUTS THE CHILD IN THE PARENTS' ROLE AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND, AND THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE KIDS OR THE FAMILY. TRANSLATING AT THE MARKET OR THE SHOE STORE IS HARMLESS, BUT THE SAME CANNOT BE SAID OF RENTAL AGREEMENTS AND PRESCRIPTIONS AND FINANCES. TEN-YEAR-OLDS DON'T HAVE THE VOCABULARY OR THE ADULT EXPERIENCE TO EXPLAIN INTEREST BEARING ACCOUNTS OR THE SIDE EFFECTS OF DRUGS, AND THE COMPLICATIONS OF TRANSLATING HEALTH ISSUES CAN BE DEVASTATING.

A SAN FRANCISCO OBSTETRICIAN SAID SHE ONCE HAD TO DELIVER A DIAGNOSIS OF CERVICAL CANCER TO A WOMAN WHOSE TWELVE-YEAR-OLD SON WAS SITTING THERE DOING THE TRANSLATING. AND FOR CHILDREN TO HAVE TO INTERPRET THEIR MOTHER'S TALES OF ABUSE AT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTERS IS SIMPLY A KIND OF ABUSE IN ITSELF. YEE'S BILL WOULD COST MONEY AND HE'S BEEN WARNED IT COULD PRICE SOME FAMILIES OUT OF MEDI-CAL CARE BECAUSE DOCTORS WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR INTERPRETERS THEMSELVES, SO THEY MIGHT STOP SEEING THOSE PATIENTS WHO BRING THEIR KIDS ALONG AS TRANSLATORS.

ONLY RECENTLY HAS THIS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED AS A PROBLEM. THE ALHAMBRA SCHOOL DISTRICT WHERE SOME FORTY PERCENT OF STUDENTS INTERPRET FOR THEIR FAMILIES HAS BEEN DISCOURAGING THE PRACTICE AND HIRING COMMUNITY COORDINATORS TO TRANSLATE SCHOOL BUSINESS. THE BILL IS WELL-INTENDED, BUT IT CAN'T GET TO THE REAL PROBLEM OF PARENTS WORKING ALL HOURS, SOMETIMES MORE THAN ONE JOB, WHO DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN ENGLISH. YET THE CONSEQUENCES MEAN THAT THEIR CHILDREN DON'T HAVE TIME TO BE CHILDREN.

VAL>> WE'RE ABOUT TO EXPLORE SOME OF THIS CITY'S HIDDEN TREASURES. THEY'RE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT FEATURES SOME OF THE VERY BEST ARCHITECTURE IN LOS ANGELES, BUT THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE YOU MAY HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE.

JESS>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORIC WEST ADAMS DISTRICT NEAR USC AND THERE YOU WILL SEE CENTURY-OLD MANSIONS, MANY OF THEM STATELY HOMES OF AFFLUENT PROFESSIONALS FROM L.A.'S PAST. NOW A NEW BOOK CAPTURES THE HISTORY OF WEST ADAMS, BUT IT'S AN UNUSUAL PIECE OF LITERATURE, A NOVELLA WRITTEN ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS THE AUTHOR OF THAT NOVELLA, DAVID BROWN. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

DAVID BROWN>> THANK YOU. IT'S A PLEASURE BEING HERE.

JESS>> THIS REALLY SUGGESTS THAT THE DIVERSITY OF WEST ADAMS IS NOT JUST IN THE HOUSING, BUT ALSO IN THE PEOPLE.

DAVID BROWN>> YES. IT'S CULTURE AND EVEN IN THE WAY THE LAND IS USED. YOU HAVE EVERYTHING FROM MAJOR INSTITUTIONS TO MOM AND POP SHOPS AND SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, SO IT'S QUITE DIVERSE.

VAL>> AND THIS IS A GREAT LITTLE GUIDE. I'VE FLIPPED THROUGH THIS. IT'S GOT PICTURES AND A MAP AND NUMBERS. IT'S JUST THE KIND OF THING I LIKE, BUT IT'S REALLY AIMED AT YOUNG PEOPLE. WHAT IS BEHIND THAT?

DAVID BROWN>> EXACTLY. ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO DO WITH THIS PROJECT IS INSTILL PRIDE IN THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND HELP THEM LEARN ABOUT THE COMMUNITY THEY LIVE IN. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IT ALSO BECOMES LIKE A WONDERFUL LEARNING TOOL THAT THEY CAN WALK DOWN THE STREET AND ACTUALLY --

VAL>> -- THEY CAN. THEY CAN LEARN ABOUT ARCHITECTURE.

DAVID BROWN>> LEARN ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURE AND A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

VAL>> WHICH IS GOOD FOR ME. YOU HAVE MISSION REVIVAL, SPANISH COLONIAL, ALL THE DIFFERENCES.

DAVID BROWN>> EXACTLY. ONE THING INTERESTING ABOUT THE COMMUNITY IS THAT A LOT OF THE HOMES, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT DEVELOPED THE HOMES, SOME OF THEM HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT STYLES. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC STYLES AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF HOMES THAT HAVE MULTIPLE STYLES.

VAL>> WHAT STYLE IS THIS ONE? THIS IS JUST A --

DAVID BROWN>> -- ACTUALLY, THIS IS A VICTORIAN GOTHIC STYLE. ACTUALLY, THIS WAS AN AMERICAN-POLYNESIAN FIVE-STAR GENERAL. ANOTHER INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS HOME, TOO, IT'S ALSO USED IN THE HBO PROGRAM "SIX FEET UNDER".

VAL>> OH, REALLY? HOW FUN. LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE WE CAN SEE THERE.

DAVID BROWN>> THIS IS ACTUALLY CALLED THE BRIT HOUSE, BUT IT'S THE AMATEUR ATHLETIC LEAGUE HOME.

JESS>> THIS IS THE COVER.

DAVID BROWN>> IT CERTAINLY IS. HERE ACTUALLY THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE RESTORED IT IN 1988 AND IT HOUSES A LIBRARY OF INFORMATION ABOUT AMATEUR ATHLETICS AND ARTWORK AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

JESS>> THE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS HAVE ALSO MOVED INTO WEST ADAMS AND NOT ALL THE HOUSES ARE THIS LARGE AND THIS GLAMOROUS.

VAL>> OH, LOOK AT THIS ONE.

DAVID BROWN>> ACTUALLY, THIS HOME WAS LIVED IN BY HATTIE MCDANIELS. IT HAS A WONDERFUL GARDEN. YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE FOLIAGE AND SOME OF THE FLOWERS, BUT A REALLY WONDERFUL AREA.

VAL>> NOW THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WEST ADAMS WENT THROUGH A NOT SO GLORIOUS ERA.

DAVID BROWN>> WELL, IN THE EARLY THIRTIES, A LOT OF BLACK ENTERTAINERS, BUTTERFLY MCQUEEN AND HATTIE MCDANIELS AND LOUISE BEAVERS -- THERE WAS A COVENANT THAT DIDN'T ALLOW BLACKS TO ACTUALLY OWN PROPERTY IN WEST ADAMS, SO THERE WAS A BIG SUPREME COURT RULING IN 1948 THAT WAS OVERTURNED.

VAL>> AND THEY HELPED TO OVERTURN THAT?

DAVID BROWN>> YES, YES.

JESS>> IN YOUR RESEARCH, DID YOU FIND SOME OF THESE HOMES -- THESE ARE BEAUTIFUL, THE ONES YOU HAVE ILLUSTRATED HERE, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE.

DAVID BROWN>> NO. UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF THE HOMES, LIKE RIGHT AFTER THE DEPRESSION, PEOPLE COULDN'T KEEP UP THEIR MORTGAGE OR, FOR WHATEVER REASON, SOME WERE TURNED INTO APARTMENTS. SOME OF THESE HOUSES WERE ACTUALLY LET GO OR DEMOLISHED, SO IT'S REALLY QUITE DISAPPOINTING AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS BOOK IS ACTUALLY MAKE PEOPLE MORE AWARE OF IT.

JESS>> PRESERVATION IS ONE OF YOUR GOALS THEN, HUH?

DAVID BROWN>> YES. A LOT OF THESE HOMES ARE ACTUALLY HISTORICAL LANDMARKS.

VAL>> NOW THIS GENTLEMAN MADE A BIG IMPACT ON --

DAVID BROWN>> -- YEAH, THAT'S PAUL WILLIAMS. HE DESIGNED THE GOLDEN STATE MUTUAL INSURANCE BUILDING WHICH IS ON WESTERN AND ADAMS. HE ALSO HELPED WITH A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS AT THE AIRPORT, THE BEVERLY HILLS HOTEL, AND OVER TWO THOUSAND BUILDINGS THROUGHOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> DID HE DO ANYTHING IN THE WEST ADAMS DISTRICT?

DAVID BROWN>> YES. IT WAS THE GOLDEN STATE MUTUAL BUILDING.

VAL>> OH, THAT'S IN WEST ADAMS.

DAVID BROWN>> THAT'S IN WEST ADAMS. THAT'S CORRECT.

VAL>> NOW WHY DID YOU WRITE IT AS A NOVELLA FOR YOUNG PEOPLE?

DAVID BROWN>> WELL, THIS PROJECT WAS AN ART DEVELOPMENT PROJECT BY THE AUTO CLUB, WHICH HAS BEEN IN THE COMMUNITY FOR OVER EIGHTY YEARS.

JESS>> AND THEY'RE PART OF THE DISTRICT.

DAVID BROWN>> THEY'RE PART OF THE DISTRICT. ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANTED TO DO WAS DO SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY. LIKE I SAID, JUST TO INSTILL SOME PRIDE IN THE YOUNG PEOPLE AND HAVE THEM AWARE OF THE TYPE OF ARCHITECTURE AND SOME OF THE LANDMARKS THAT THEY'RE LIVING RIGHT AROUND.

JESS>> SOME OF THESE WERE ALSO DESTROYED BY THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SANTA MONICA FREEWAY.

DAVID BROWN>> THAT'S CORRECT, THAT'S CORRECT. ACTUALLY, THAT --

JESS>> -- WHAT IS THIS ONE?

DAVID BROWN>> ACTUALLY, THIS IS DOHENY MANSION --

VAL>> -- OH, THAT'S ON THE CAMPUS OF MOUNT ST. MARY'S.

DAVID BROWN>> YES, IT'S NOW ON THE MOUNT ST. MARY'S CAMPUS. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL PLACE. A LOT OF THESE HOMES ARE SO HUGE. THIS IS THE WILLIAM ARTHUR CLARK LIBRARY. ACTUALLY, THIS IS A TYPICAL EXAMPLE OF A STRUCTURE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY EVEN SEE FROM THE STREET. THIS IS RIGHT OFF CIMARRON AND ADAMS. IT'S A WONDERFUL STRUCTURE, BUT YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT FROM THE STREET.

VAL>> IS IT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC? IS IT A LIBRARY?

DAVID BROWN>> IT IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY MAKE RESERVATIONS TO GO SEE IT.

JESS>> WELL, THEY CAN FIND IT BY THIS GUIDEBOOK.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JESS>> THE NAME OF DAVID BROWN'S BOOK IS "THE HISTORICAL WEST ADAMS DISTRICT: STREET OF DREAMS". IT'S BEING DISTRIBUTED FREE TO SELECTED SCHOOLS, LIBRARIES AND THROUGH THE AUTO CLUB OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> AND I'M GOING TO TAKE IT AND FINALLY DRIVE THROUGH THE WEST ADAMS DISTRICT (LAUGHTER). SHAME ON ME FOR NOT BEING THERE, BUT I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR. THANK YOU SO MUCH, DAVID BROWN.

DAVID BROWN>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

VAL>> A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR HEAR AUDIO OF LIFE AND TIMES ON OUR NEWLY-DESIGNED, BEAUTIFUL NEW WEBSITE. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR JOINING US. GOOD NIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.